NHS doctors strike

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paul m
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by paul m » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:32 am

When I was in hospital one evening needed a new canula fitting 2 junior Drs stopped off to do it on there way home ( my veins were knackered by then ) they spent best part of an hour even tried putting one in ankle . Did they moan NO they were chirpy I know they were in early as they accompanied consultant on his morning rounds .
My point is I object to the government saying we are going to change your contract now get on with it Junior Drs do a good job that I wouldn't want to do yet ministers do a good job buggering up country then getting paid huge amounts for . What training do they have to do to become a minister .

If they want to change a contract then they must make it look attractive
Paul

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Janey Dal
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by Janey Dal » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:18 pm

Hi Paul

I agree - some of them work horrendous hours and despite all the years of study, still get some of the rubbish jobs the consultants don't want to do.

There is a suggestion that the government contract is not going to provide enough cover over weekends because the doctors will be spread too thinly. This is why they are talking about safety.

I sadly think their union is not doing them any favours because they are not publicising exactly what the issue is about so they are not getting the public on side which they need.

Whether this is because the union is not good at publicity or whether it's because it won't look like a valid argument if they provide the figures, I don't know.

I do have some sympathy for them, but I think that's because I can see (as an insider) exactly what a desperate mess the government has made of the NHS.

However, my understanding is that imposing a change of contract on anyone is against the law? I think Jeremy Hunt is on shaky ground to be honest. And as the government is losing popularity and we have local elections looming he needs to be very careful.

Hugs

Jane xx

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stuart13
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by stuart13 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:47 pm

I don't think anyone is suggesting that junior doctors don't work hard, but we need a 7 day health service and whatever is being said to the contrary, we do not have it. 7 day emergency cover is not a 7 day health service.

If a group of employees refuse to accept that this is required, then I what is the answer?

Hippocratic oath doesn't just apply just during working hours, many employees, no matter where employed, stay on after time to finish the job.

Many millions of people in the retail environment work Saturdays and Sundays, many of them have families and many of them receive no extra pay for the hours that they put in on those days if it forms part of their normal working week.

The NHS is fantastic when it works, as in emergency care, but it is like a dinasaur with each leg having its own brain.

Yes we need other departments to be working as well as the doctors but there is no point it setting those up if in the first instance they are not working.

Try to get discharged at a weekend, try to get extra pain medication at a weekend, try to discuss the health of a relative.

Try getting to sleep on the ward at night with beepers being ignored, nurses at the work station blabbing away as they do their internet shopping or booking their holidays, bright lights everywhere ............

Try getting an appointment to see a specialist, months on the NHS, tomorrow if you go private. What's that all about?

Are all those people who are free wheeling in hospital management wasting tax payers money Tory voters or according to 'social media' Tory scum?

Don't tell me that there is nothing wrong with the health service.

Stu 8)

unclemorris67
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by unclemorris67 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:21 pm

I have only been treated 3 times by a junior doctor, I have had my consultants at my bed at 6am then again at 11pm, I have had consultants for multi discipline medical needs in the middle of the night
My hospital has been on special measures for 3 years, the nurses are working on wards with too many people to see at night. I have never seen them chat about anything other than patients and being frustrated that either the doctors were thin on the ground or they had patients they were not trained to look after (I was on a respiratory ward, when I became diabetic as endocrine ward was full and I was transferred from ICU)
There is way too much paperwork involved from admin, nurses and doctors.
Sharon

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stuart13
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by stuart13 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:35 pm

Yes there are too many incompetent managers building there own little empires and shuffling paperwork rather than dealing with it, but I don't think that the doctors are on strike because of this.

:)

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Janey Dal
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by Janey Dal » Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:34 pm

No but I do believe it is part of the general unrest within the Health Service.

There has always been some dissatisfaction from clinical staff on how much the corporate staff earn and quite rightly.

The NHS has been well acknowledged as being in crisis but no government has the gumption or guts to actually make the changes needed they just tinker at the edges - ultimately costing more in reorganisation costs. I remember our local hospital rebranding some years ago (God knows why everyone still calls it by its old name) and the cost of the changes needed to letterhead and similar stationery items alone ran into 100s of thousands of pounds.

But all of this waste and government cuts and asking for more for less is (in my opinion) at the root of the doctor's strike.

And in response to Sharon and Stuart's comments on paperwork and the lack of information at weekends - this is an outcome of this government's decisions. The NHS was well on the way to having a full electronic patient record system which would have at least allowed clinical staff at weekends to have access to your full history even with an emergency admission - thereby cutting paperwork and allowing a more streamlined service at weekends. It was millions over-budget (quel surprise!) but was 85% completed and was stopped in its tracks with the change of government. So whilst being well over-budget the previous investment was totally wasted.

And please don't think I have any particular political affiliation - I used to have but now think they are all a bunch of losers! But certainly the current establishment has been appalling with its treatment of the NHS.

Hugs

Jane xx

And yes I've told my MP but he's busy being the MP for the Northern Powerhouse - whatever THAT is!

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stuart13
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by stuart13 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:50 pm

Interesting Jane.

I'm not posting on this subject to make political points or to promote my elegance to the communist party but to start a dialogue/debate on the subject.

Instinct tells me that I should support the doctors (if I don't it might come home to bite me) and I want to understand why they are striking but I've yet to hear a convincing reason for the strike.

I read in the Guardian newspaper that new contract discriminates against female doctors because of childcare but if you make female doctors a special case then the male doctors would become discriminated against.

Confused?????

:wink: :)

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louhar
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by louhar » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:32 pm

stuart13 wrote:
I read in the Guardian newspaper that new contract discriminates against female doctors because of childcare but if you make female doctors a special case then the male doctors would become discriminated against.
I think the point being made is that the contract forces doctors to work unsocial hours whether or not they have parental responsibilities. Getting childcare for a night shift on a Saturday night is not as practical as 9-5 during the week, especially as you're not allowed to dump your kids with any old Tom, Dick or Harry (they have to be Ofsted inspected, DBS checked and all that stuff). It is more likely to affect female rather than male doctors as women, even with careers, are often in the position of having to organize childcare to be able to work. And that's not even considering the extra cost of out of hours childcare, if you can get it. If a male doctor has these responsibilities it is equally difficult for them too.

And if you work part time in order to accommodate parental responsibilities, you want to be working when your kids are at school in the main so you can spend time with you own children (not too much to ask surely?)

In other walks of life employers are supposed to make reasonable accommodation for parents of young children, apparently not so the NHS.

I think the real issue here is a lack of clinical staff, not the hours they work. I don't think the answer is make them work longer hours for the same or less money...the upshot of that is going to be even less clinical staff, even longer hours, and ultimately a service that is unreliable and even less able to cope.

I do think that what needs attention is the GP surgeries and the inability of patients to get to see their doctor. Maybe then A&E wouldn't be so overwhelmed?
Louise xx

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stuart13
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by stuart13 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:29 pm

I hear what you say, but I don't understand the longer hours bit.

If they have a Monday or any other day of the week off because they work a Saturday or Sunday, why are they working extra hours? It's just working different hours to cover 7 days.

The new contract is supposed to reduce the total number of hours that they might have to work.

:)

paul m
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by paul m » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:58 pm

Can I throw in something else

If NHS is short of Drs what happens if we stay in EU as there is another 5 countries that want to join which means more coming to this country . Any one tried to make an appointment at Drs lately or waiting for a hospital bed . What is the governments plan to deal with this .

Hope you don't think I am being racist
Paul

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stuart13
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by stuart13 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:08 pm

Not racist, it is a valid concern, Paul.

One of the biggest reasons as to why we are having problems with the NHS, school places, housing, etc., is because of the rapidly increasing population in the UK.

:)

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MikeyB
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by MikeyB » Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:58 pm

I live in Scotland, where NHS Scotland has organised contracts for doctors without any complaint. The same applies in Wales. So why is England different? The answer is Jeremy Hunt, who some while back co-wrote a book discussing privatisation of the NHS. This is the underlying idea of everything that Mr Hunt does. When he has crippled NHS England the American health providers will move in, and this is why he is so intransigent about applying a contract which is a danger to patients and doctors. Don't for a minute think this about money, because it isn't.

I'm just thankful that I live in a country where there is still an NHS that runs effectively (mostly) and with dedicated staff. NHS Scotland last year opened the new, enormous Queen Elizabeth university hospital in Glasgow. In the hospital, patients have individual rooms with en-suite facilities, wifi and television. Mind you, the car parking is inadequate (but free, as it is in all Scottish hospitals).

See the difference? Scotland has a government that believes in the NHS, England doesn't.

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stuart13
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by stuart13 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:31 pm

Hi Mikey

Does the NHS in Scotland have a full 7 day per week service?

Mr Hunt has handled the situation badly.

:)

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Janey Dal
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by Janey Dal » Sun May 01, 2016 10:16 am

Interesting Mikey!

Out of interest the government has just announced a new scheme to increase the number of GPs but as usual it will be too little too late. I'm not sure of the details as yet.

I work currently in a department which works with private providers and NHS providers. Believe me the amount it costs to administer the contracts far outweighs any potential savings. And in my opinion and experience some of them aren't even monitored properly.

Hugs

Jane xx

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stuart13
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Re: NHS doctors strike

Post by stuart13 » Sun May 01, 2016 10:51 am

"Houston, We've Had a Problem"

:)

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